33 Likewise also you, when you see all these things, know that he is near at the doors.
34 Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things happen.
defender of truth
JoinedPosts by defender of truth
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Matthew 24 - "This Generation": If you are a Jehovahs Witness that dares to study the Bible itself...
by defender of truth inrather than just rely on the watchtower's latest opinions... are you ready?.
1) please read this article:.
2) if you are offended by the article's title, read this page for an explanation of what the phrase means, then go back and read it:.
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defender of truth
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Matthew 24 - "This Generation": If you are a Jehovahs Witness that dares to study the Bible itself...
by defender of truth inrather than just rely on the watchtower's latest opinions... are you ready?.
1) please read this article:.
2) if you are offended by the article's title, read this page for an explanation of what the phrase means, then go back and read it:.
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defender of truth
One more point:
[Jesus has just described the pangs of distress, the great tribulation, signs in heaven, and the coming of the Son of Man]
33 Likewise also you, when you see all these things, know that he is near at the doors.
34 Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things happen.
*Who was Jesus speaking to?
*Who did he expect to understand the signs, and to know what they meant?
*What are 'all these things' in verses 33 and 34?
(Hint: read the whole chapter, especially Jesus' reply from verse 4 onward.)
*Was Jesus speaking about 'that generation' (a different group in the future)... Or did he say 'this generation' (present tense)?
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Who am I to screw up their happiness?
by Crazyguy inthat was the question to me tonight.
because of their beliefs they have a moral compass, a net work of friends and a support group.
they have what they believe is a loving god.
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defender of truth
Would I be better off for my family just to try to make them better Christians then to try to wake them up to the fact that it's all a lie?
You don't need to 'make' anybody into anything.
I'm not having a go at you, you understand? I am just making an observation on your thought process.
We don't need to change anyone's thinking. We just speak the truth as we know it, based on our knowledge of the Bible and the world.
If people get distressed when we tell them things that are true, that is their problem.
Or perhaps I should say: 'that is the problem with their culture , the JW culture which ignores reality and even the Bible itself'.
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TV.JW.ORG (September 2015) - Generation explained again
by Designer Stubble inguess the overlapping generation concept is difficult for most to comprehend.
david spane does his best to explain it again.
the cutoff date for this generation has now moved to 1992 (was once 1935), the year that fred franz died.
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defender of truth
To me, the Governing Body even discussing different meanings of the word 'generation' is utterly pointless.
The time period that Jesus was referring to, ie his contemporaries, is the only thing that matters..
You can sit and change generation definitions all day, the Bible itself shows that Jesus was talking about his generation. Any reasonable person can see that from reading Matthew, Mark and Luke's accounts.
Here is a brief step-by-step guide:
(I'd love it if someone would try this out with a JW. Anyway, hope its of interest to someone)
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Matthew 24 - "This Generation": If you are a Jehovahs Witness that dares to study the Bible itself...
by defender of truth inrather than just rely on the watchtower's latest opinions... are you ready?.
1) please read this article:.
2) if you are offended by the article's title, read this page for an explanation of what the phrase means, then go back and read it:.
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defender of truth
Crazyguy 40 minutes ago
"Let's be clear lurkers need the truth as much as anybody so for one the proper translation is not 'end of the world' but 'end of the age'."
Not sure who you're talking to?
That point was already made in my OP:
The rest of your post is basically off-topic, about the Bible being untrustworthy, which is obvious to us.. but a JW won't listen, they believe Gods spirit told the writers what was said and preserved Gods word intact. That kind of talk will not get through to a Jehovah's Witness, and that was the whole point of my starting this thread. It was most likely a waste of time I guess....the disciples supposing that when the destruction of Jerusalem should take place, then would be the coming of Christ and the end of the world.. or, the conclusion of the age, as συντελεια του αιωνος should rather be translated here, and often signifies.
There must be a million threads on here about the Bible not being divinely inspired and trustworthy.I was attempting to provide people with a step-by-step reasoning process to use with JW's, using just the Bible and possibly some of the Bible commentary from the article.. that would move any thoughtful JW to acknowledge that absolutely nothing in the text ITSELF indicates Jesus was talking about a generation nearly 2000 years later...
The Bible does not in any way support that conclusion (if you read it for yourself without a need to make it say something it does not).That should be enough to debunk the Governing Body's claims that only they are authorised to interpret the Bible correctly.They apparently refuse to even study the Bible without bias or their own agenda.
Searcher:
Great point. It is so simple when you read the text in an unbiased way, isn't it?(Luke 21:20) “However, when you see Jerusalem surrounded by encamped armies, then know that the desolating of her has drawn near."
Pretty specific and unparalleled in that generation's personal experience!
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Matthew 24 - "This Generation": If you are a Jehovahs Witness that dares to study the Bible itself...
by defender of truth inrather than just rely on the watchtower's latest opinions... are you ready?.
1) please read this article:.
2) if you are offended by the article's title, read this page for an explanation of what the phrase means, then go back and read it:.
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defender of truth
@Everybody...
Please, remember that this topic is mainly for the benefit of lurkers.
Please withhold any drawing of conclusions as to Jesus as a prophet, or anything in that direction. I want people to read this comfortably and just think, not have any beliefs attacked. (I hope you understand my meaning).
Finally, please feel free to share this post anywhere and everywhere, if you like it.
It may be helpful to some having dicussions with overlapping generation believers in the future.. Who knows. ;)
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Matthew 24 - "This Generation": If you are a Jehovahs Witness that dares to study the Bible itself...
by defender of truth inrather than just rely on the watchtower's latest opinions... are you ready?.
1) please read this article:.
2) if you are offended by the article's title, read this page for an explanation of what the phrase means, then go back and read it:.
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defender of truth
rather than just rely on the Watchtower's latest opinions..
Are you ready?
1) Please read this article:
www.americanvision.org/7618/exegetical-this-generation-matthew-24/
2) If you are offended by the article's title, read this page for an explanation of what the phrase means, then go back and read it:
www.gotquestions.org/kick-against-the-pricks.html
3) When you have finished reading the article, please read Matthew chapter 24.
www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/matthew/24/
Verses 1-3 tell you the context for what Jesus is about to tell his disciples.
Ask yourself:
* What are the disciples referring to in verse 1?
* What destruction did Jesus refer to in verse 2?
* What are 'these things' that the disciples ask about in verse 3? (Hint: The context shows that they must be asking about what Jesus said would happen in verse 2)
Benson Commentary
Tell us, when shall these things be? And what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? —
These seem to be only different expressions to denote the same period with the destruction of Jerusalem..
the disciples supposing that when the destruction of Jerusalem should take place, then would be the coming of Christ and the end of the world.. or, the conclusion of the age, as συντελεια του αιωνος should rather be translated here, and often signifies. See especially Hebrews 9:36; and 1 Corinthians 10:11.
Accordingly, in the parallel place of Mark 13:4, their question is expressed thus, 'When shall these things be, and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?'
And in that of Luke 21:7, 'When shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?'
The disciples therefore inquire concerning two things; 1st, the time of the destruction of Jerusalem; and, 2nd, the signs of it.
4) Please read Mark chapter 13.
www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/mark/13/
The wording in this account, verses 1-4, makes the context even more clear, in this parallel account of Matthew 24.
5) Please read Luke 21 (verse 5 onwards)
www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/luke/21/
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So, does the meaning of 'This Generation' now seem any clearer to you?
Take note of the context, the situation, who Jesus was talking to.
Let's just put on one side, for a moment, what the Governing Body has told you that the Bible says. Or what your parents have told you that it says.
Which meaning do you think has clear support within the Bible itself? (That is, after all, what you want to study.. what the Scriptures themselves actually say?)
Was 'this generation' that Jesus spoke of in Matthew, Mark, and Luke:
Two groups of people whose lives would overlap, almost two thousand years later.. an overlapping generation made up of people who are still, to this day, changing their minds on what Jesus meant by this simple statement?
Or was Jesus speaking to the people alive with Jesus back then, the people he was explaining these things to, and clearly directing every comment towards them?
Count the number of times in those scriptures I've mentioned, when Jesus uses the words 'You' or 'your'.
Put that Watchtower down, and read Gods Word. Look at the verses themselves. What is your conclusion? (I hope that you are not too afraid to think..)
I will leave you with these comments, if you wish to read them.
D. A. Carson (1984): “[This generation] can only with the greatest difficulty be made to mean anything other than the generation living when Jesus spoke.”
Jack P. Lewis (1976): “The meaning of generation (genea) is crucial to the interpretation of the entire chapter... Others have argued that genea means the final generation; that is, once the signs have started, all these happenings would transpire in one generation (cf. 23:36). But elsewhere in Matthew genea means the people alive at one time and usually at the time of Jesus (1:17; 11:16; 12:39,41,45; 23:36; Mark 8:38; Luke 11:50f.; 17:25), and it doubtlessly means the same here...
“Christ’s use of the words ‘immediately after’ [in Matthew 24:29] does not leave room for a long delay (2,000 years or more before his literal second coming occurs), neither does the explicit time-scale given in Matthew 24:34. The word ‘parousia’ does not occur in this section but is prominently reintroduced in the new paragraph which begins at Matthew 24:36, where its unknown time is contrasted with the clear statement that the events of this paragraph will take place within ‘this generation” (Matthew 24:36). This section is therefore in direct continuity with what has gone before, the account of the siege of Jerusalem. Here we reach its climax.
F. F. Bruce (1983): “The phrase ‘this generation’ is found too often on Jesus’ lips in this literal sense for us to suppose that it suddenly takes on a different meaning in the saying we are now examining. Moreover, if the generation of the end-time had been intended, ‘that generation’ would have been a more natural way of referring to it than ‘this generation'.
R. T. France (2007): “‘This generation’ has been used frequently in this gospel for Jesus’ contemporaries, especially in a context of God’s impending judgment; see 11:16; 12:39, 41–42, 45; 16:4; 17:17, and especially 23:36, where God’s judgment on ‘this generation’ leads up to Jesus’ first prediction of the devastation of the temple in 23:38.
Grant R. Osborne (2010): “‘[T]his generation’ (ἡ γενεὰ αὕτη) in the gospels always means the people of Jesus’ own time (Matthew 11:16; 12:41–42; 23:36) not, as some have proposed, the generation of the last days in history..
Even with all this evidence, there are still those who try their best to make “this generation” into any generation but the generation of Jesus’ day. They are “kicking against the exegetical pricks.”
www.americanvision.org/7618/exegetical-this-generation-matthew-24/
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Thinking about taking my fiance to a meeting.. going as a "worldly person"
by OneStepOut93 ini may take my fiance to a meeting.
give them fake names and just see how my fiance reacts.
he's been curious about seeing what i hated so much about the whole thing (not that he'll really understand everything, i mean of course he never will to my extent but)... i'd like to see what an outsiders view on the whole thing would be as well.
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defender of truth
That image was poor quality, I'm sorry.. -
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Thinking about taking my fiance to a meeting.. going as a "worldly person"
by OneStepOut93 ini may take my fiance to a meeting.
give them fake names and just see how my fiance reacts.
he's been curious about seeing what i hated so much about the whole thing (not that he'll really understand everything, i mean of course he never will to my extent but)... i'd like to see what an outsiders view on the whole thing would be as well.
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defender of truth
Can anyone post the image of the group of people looking confident amid a dark background, from the article I posted? It doesn't seem to appear when I post it..
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Thinking about taking my fiance to a meeting.. going as a "worldly person"
by OneStepOut93 ini may take my fiance to a meeting.
give them fake names and just see how my fiance reacts.
he's been curious about seeing what i hated so much about the whole thing (not that he'll really understand everything, i mean of course he never will to my extent but)... i'd like to see what an outsiders view on the whole thing would be as well.
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defender of truth
"We are not a weird cult, we are just looking forward to the slaughter of billions of people"
